good analogies for the trinity

Modern metaphors for the Trinity - MAGIX Yet we look to the heavens and hold expectations of God. Transcript Is There a Good Analogy for the Trinity?. Other variations of this emphasize a person's relationships—a man might be a son, a husband, and a father—to express three different types of relationships flowing . The problem with analogies for the Trinity It's possible to launch out on a quest for answers to questions that were never worth raising. 4 Bad Ways to Explain the Trinity (and 1 Good One) • Her ... there is no good analogy to compare this because all analogies will give an incomplete view of what God is. When referring to the Trinity, the Bible uses the titles of "Father" and "Son" to reveal the distinctness and the close relationship that exists in the blessed Godhead. A good analogy can be helpful sometimes, but can't possibly please God when the word "Trinity" makes us think primarily about ice cubes and shamrocks rather than the incarnation of the Son and the outpouring of the Spirit. When I taught the doctrine of God course I used to keep . He begins with the observation that love has a Trinitarian form of "the lover, that which is loved, and love". Check out the brand new video below, in which I discuss what constitutes a good trinitarian analogy . Answer: In which case, I am not sure that is a good analogy, then, for the Trinity! Teaching the Trinity to Students — Youth Pastor Theologian This Sunday is Trinity Sunday. The idea of God as three-in-one is indeed a mysterious concept, one that is difficult to understand. The Trinity. As for the analogies, I guarantee most Trinitarians have heard these analogies of quality vs quantity, and have used them without even thinking about the faulty human reasoning behind them. Do Analogies Prove the Trinity? - Logic in Debate ... Why Analogies And Illustrations Of The Trinity Fail. Stated differently, God is one in essence and three in person. Modern metaphors for the Trinity. •. It is complicated, so a visual illustration is helpful for kids. One of the standard analogies for the Trinity is a good example of modalism: The Trinity is like water because water comes in three forms - ice, water, steam. Actually, one end shows one opening of white light and the other has . For an analogy view of 3 Persons in one take a look at a three leaf clover. He plays three different roles . The analogy breaks down because the three cloves are overly distinct and cannot represent the unity of God. The difficulty arises when he have to decide which analogies are good analogies and which are bad. The water as gas, liquid and solid analogy, for instance, is a better analogy to explain a modalistic God than it is the trinitarian one. And people are pretty quick to send these and say, "How do you respond to these?" Some we may not be aware of, but quite often when it . However, the egg analogy is good because it shows the distinction between the persons of the God-head: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is kind of like a three-leaf clover, or a triangle; one object, but three different, identifiable leaves, or sides*. of well-intended analogies that have been used to help us understand the doctrine of the Trinity. "God as a Trinity can be compared to a man who is a father, a son, and a husband. Such a definition may suffice for some, but for others this explanation is insufficient. Bad Analogies for the Trinity. In spite of that, people have used various analogies to convey this mystery, albeit vaguely and imprecisely. Another analogy for the Trinity is that God is three in one, just as H 2 O can exist as a solid, a liquid, and a gas. But the analogies you've probably heard the most of are not very good. There are not 3 essences, and there is not just one divine person. I love analogies and there are no good analogies of the Trinity. Modernizations of this analogy include that of an apple (with the peel, the flesh, and the core) or an egg (with its shell, yoke, and white). The Trinity is defined as one God who exists in three eternal, simultaneous, and distinct persons known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit . That means lots of pastors will talking about the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity means that there is one God who eternally exists as three distinct Persons — the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. 4 But it was more than that. And we should expect all analogies to fall short because the Trinity is utterly unique. If you need to use an analogy, then use a good one. Every analogy falls short. Further, historically, good and Orthodox theologians made free use of analogies in explaining the Holy Trinity. So if all of these explanations are heretical, what is a good analogy? - A Psychological Analogy for the Procession of the Trinity Before going into the explanation, we need a basic understanding that the trinity is one essence with three persons. And for a mere mortal to have dared invent it and be able t. Let the patron saint of the Irish show you what I'm talking about. There are not 3 essences, and there is not just one divine person. One of the more traditional ways people have used in the past (myself included) to describe the Trinity is an analogy of the states of water . One of the standard analogies for the Trinity is a good example of modalism: The Trinity is like water because water comes in three forms - ice, water, steam. Maybe using a couple analogies will help illustrate how the analogies are limited to pointing to specific truths. In the same way, God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but all three are God.". The Greek Trinity. Ice, water and steam are all water, yet they . Similarly, light and heat are simply creations of the sun, yet it is the heresy of Arianism to claim that the Son or Spirit are mere creations of the Father. St. Patrick's Bad Analogies The problem with using analogies to explain the Holy Trinity is that you always end up confessing some ancient heresy. Augustine, for example, develops a good psychological analogy for the Trinity. In today's feedback article, Dr Jonathan Sarfati responds to various readers concerning the doctrine of the Trinity. Therefore, much effort has been spent trying to understand and articulate them accurately. So the third term in our analogy of the mind is the "affection" for the self. We Christians believe it on faith. 0:00 / 3:50 •. Unfortunately, some of the analogies (like water appearing as ice, liquid and steam) actually come closer to illustrating heresy. An alternative. I certainly will be. At times, we struggle to articulate what we believe about God. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: 'The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the . Honestly, no. (If you just see a black box, click through the to blog itself to see the video.) The egg analogy fails because it denies that each person of the Trinity is of the same eternal essence. That's why Christians have looked for analogies to explain what the Trinity is like. Mainly because water cannot be all three at one time. St. Patrick's Bad Analogies The problem with using analogies to explain the Holy Trinity is that you always end up confessing some ancient heresy. What is a common misconception people have about the Trinity? If one's "self-awareness" is described as the sum of all one's thoughts and experiences, what can be called as one's all-encompassing "experience of existence", then one engenders an affection for that which is contemplated . In the past, I have used illustrations that answer kids' questions about the Trinity but do so at the expense of mystery and what is true. Plus, ironically, the modalism underlying this analogy is in its own way a kind of denial of the very thing it is often used to try to prove, that God is three distinct non-modal co-eternal individual Persons . So I think analogies are good tools since they can illustrate particular truths of the Trinity, but one should always point the limits of the analogy. The Catechism teaches that, "The Trinity is One. http://reasonablefaith.org - Dr. William Lane Craig gives his own analogy of the Holy Trinity.We welcome your comments in the Reasonable Faith forums:http://. Maybe using a couple analogies will help illustrate how the analogies are limited to pointing to specific truths. Nothing else is like the Trinity, so there is no good analogy for it. So we turn to analogies. Most analogies used to explain the Trinity do a better job explaining a heretical view of God than the orthodox Trinitarian one. On the other hand, one cannot get to a doctrinal or theological proof by laying out a scientific principle nature. The water analogy of the Trinity follows this line of reasoning: water can be a solid (ice/frozen water), liquid, and gas (water vapor), and yet all three forms are still water (H 2 O), and likewise, God manifests Himself in 3 different ways in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I present it here for your edification: I remember watching this and feeling challenged to come up with an analogy that doesn't break some heresy of the Christian . One of the analogies used by the Cappadocian Fathers and other early theologians to illustrate the doctrine of the Trinity was the social analogy in which Father, Son and Spirit were likened to three human persons.. Is St Augustine Catholic? Some people falsely claim the Trinity is a form of poly-theism. "God as a Trinity can be compared to H2O. The shell is the Father, the egg white is the Son, and the yolk is the Holy Spirit. Here are some common analogies that Christians have used about the Trinity: God is kind of like water which can be ice, liquid and steam. Of course, all analogies are imperfect, but if we should dismiss them for that reason then we have to dismiss much of the Bible as well. What is a good analogy for the trinity? When I was in high school, one of my teachers said that the Trinity was like H2O. Such illustrations-some from the West but also from Latin America, Asia, Africa, and more-come freighted with theological ramifications that the church has rejected (heresies) or embraced (doctrines). I suspect it may even remain a mystery . And they break down pretty quickly. Christians should become familiar with them so our explanations of the Trinity are not defeated by our analogies. All illustrations of the Trinity end up in heresy (usually modalism). The following may help in this regard: 1. Each potential false application should also be pointed out. The Trinity is pretty weird: the Father (or Mother), Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are in some sense distinct from one another, but are all unified in another sense. Unfortunately, these errors usually come about when Catholics with good intentions try to create an analogy to help nonbelievers, or those who need catechesis, to understand the Trinity. Is water a good analogy for the Trinity? This one is not so successful: "If three drops of water are put into a bowl, they become one, but there are still three drops of water in . But when it come. Now, I think some analogies are helpful. What we need to understand, however, is that analogies don't prove anything. Pablo Picasso, 1921. Since the doctrine of the Trinity is often described and taught to be so complicated that no one can't get a full grasp of it, we try to find a way to relay a clear understanding of the divine truth to not just new Christians, but to other people as well. Answer: I will get into Latin and Social Trinitarianism a little bit later . The 3 Most Common "Trinity Analogies" (and their limitations) The three most common go-to analogies for explaining the Trinity are water, an egg, and the sun. Why Analogies for the Trinity All Fail Consider the list (states of water, shamrock, 1x1x1=1, etc.) If someone already has an understanding based on the definition and explanation above, then these analogies might help them grasp aspects of the Trinity. These definitions express three crucial truths: (1) The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons, (2) each Person is fully God, (3 . We would not expect the worm to instantly understand the man, or the man to be precisely what the worm expects. The Trinity is a mystery which cannot be explained or compared to anything on earth. A Good Analogy of the Christian Trinity If you haven't seen this very important high-quality video about Bad Analogies the Christian idea of the Trinity, then you are missing out. Illustrating the Trinity is a noble goal, but it is ultimately an exercise in futility. The video's from Lutheran Satire, whose motto is "Teach the Faith by making fun of stuff"! It falls into the heresy of tri-theism. "Three musicians". *A . We believe that it is a revelation that comes from Christ Himself. The doctrines of the Trinity and the Incarnation are central doctrines in Christianity. So I think analogies are good tools since they can illustrate particular truths of the Trinity, but one should always point the limits of the analogy. True. There is nothing on earth like the Triune nature of God. Analogies are used to help us explain complex topics such as Trinity. These include is God made of parts, good analogies versus fallacious ones, the personality of the Holy Spirit, how the early Church including Tertullian realized that the Bible taught the Trinity, what "God is one" means. Every analogy ends up introducing some kind of heresy. This is Modalism because these are three states or modes of the substance water. The Bible uses analogies to teach us various aspects of God's character; HE is like a rock in HIS faithfulness or HE is a shepherd in HIS care, etc. The boy disappeared and left the embarrassed bishop alone on the shore. But as Craig does he also sees the limited benefit of analogies. The above picture is a famous work of art by Andrei Rubilev, the great medieval Russian painter of Orthodox icons and frescos. - A Psychological Analogy for the Procession of the Trinity Before going into the explanation, we need a basic understanding that the trinity is one essence with three persons. The problem with using analogies to explain the Trinity is that God is the most unique being in existence. God is kind of like a man who is a father, a son and an uncle. Asked where she learned such illuminating analogies, Abbott was quick to credit her local Evangelical church. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the 'consubstantial Trinity'. II) Analogies of the Trinity Having defended the distinctions of the persons in the Godhead, Augustine proceeds to search out for analogies that will illuminate the relationships within the Godhead. In Three in One, William David Spencer shares a lifetime of insights from . Therefore, to help understand the Trinity better, I offer the following analogy that, I think, is hinted at . God is infinite. I know all of this for a fact, because I used to do the very same things. The example of the egg is often used. One God in three persons. This is Modalism because these are . A Good Analogy of the Christian Trinity Posted by The Jones on June 15, 2020 If you haven't seen this very important high-quality video about Bad Analogies the Christian idea of the Trinity, then you are missing out. And he's also an elder and a small group leader. A Couple of Analogies for the Trinity and the Incarnation, Part I. If you keep your expectations very, very, very low, some Trinity analogies might be . 4. All analogies on the Trinity break down at some point, though. a This is what happens when evangelicals use a variety of analogies to explain the doctrine of the Trinity. H 2 O can exist in three forms: liquid, gas and solid. Q&A: Loving the LGBTQ Community, Analogies for the Trinity, and Abortion Nov 12, 2021 On today's Bible Answer Man broadcast (11/12/21), Hank answers the following questions: One person with three roles—just like the Trinity." Michael writes to say that he recently read an article I wrote in 1999 on the Trinity and to ask if I'm willing to consider an analogy for the Trinity. 0:00. The H20 analogy is likely not perfect (as it describes the Trinity), but it is a good one IMO. Common analogies. He is also a preeminent Catholic . One of the most common analogies is water: Water is one thing, but it takes three forms: liquid water, water vapor, and ice. Trinity Tuesday - An Ancient Analogy for the Trinity (Part 2) One of my favorite definitions of the Trinity comes from Mike Reeves, who says that the Trinity is the Father, Son, and Spirit loving each other forever. The whole idea that it matters very much to figure out a good analogy for the Trinity is usually a sign that we've gotten hold of the doctrine by the wrong end. The Trinity, Michael Bird, explains, "is not an esoteric doctrine forged in an unholy marriage of Greek metaphysical speculation and dodgy biblical interpretation." b Our experience of God is not unitarian or tritheistic, but can only . Throughout history, Christians have pictured the relationships between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit through analogies. This illustration for the Trinity has been around a long time and is probably one of the most useful pictures for affirming what the doctrine of the Trinity affirms and denies. A worm looks up at a man. Misunderstanding 1: The transforming trinity. The Egg Analogy - God is like an egg. The concept is literally unthinkable. The water-in-three-different-forms-analogy may be misleading, but it works as an analogy of the economic trinity where God certainly reveals himself in three different forms. St. Augustine searches for an analogy to help his listeners comprehend the oneness of the Trinity but the distinct works of each Person (though it's important to remember that all Trinitarian analogies fall short). So Let's talk about how we talk about the Trinity. What we are need are analogies that help see plurality and unity at the same time. And from one point of view, the claim that the one true God is the Father, Son, and Spirit is . I understand you don't think that is acceptable because you can't understand it. Augustine is recognized as a saint in the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Anglican Communion. Yep, I've come to think that all analogies, when pressed completely, are more heretical than helpful. The Trinity is Like a Man who is a Father, Husband, and Son. The Water as Liquid/Ice/Steam doesn't work / The Apple with its skin / pulp / and core doesn't work. I have found that all of the analogies for The Trinity: states of water, the egg, a pie, etc. It has always been acknowledged that, of course, we cannot understand them fully or completely . Are you later going to draw the distinction between Modalism and anti-social and non-social Trinitarianism? The Trinity Box is a homemade illustration consisting of a little black box with an opening on one end and three on the other. Water at room temperature is liquid. The analogy explains that in the same way that one shamrock can have three leaves on it, the Trinity has three Persons that constitute one God. God may not be what you expect. The Trinity In Picture Form. The Trinity, however, is simultaneously three in one, while a molecule of H2O must be either water, steam, or ice. Olympic triad of Zeus ( king of the gods ), Athena (goddess of war and intelect) and Apollo (god of the sun, culture and music) In the Greek culture Zeus was the name for Nimrod, Athena for Semiramis, and Apollo for Tammuz. God is three distinct persons who are all the same God. It is beautiful, and it is simple. I really thought that the God of the Jews / The One God He talks about the mind's ability to remember, to understand, and to will. Any analogy used to explain the Trinity will not represent it completely accurately. The Egg with its shell / white and yoke all of these don't do the Trinity justice. After yesterday's super-long theological post, here's a bit of light theological relief for you. If the Trinity were true, the truth in nature about the states in which water can exist would only illustrate the point. At least as it works to illuminate that which IS perfect (God). "Our pastor, Bob, is a great teacher. The Holy Trinity is a mystery that will always remain a mystery to us on earth. The Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is the shell, Jesus is the egg white, and the Father is the . Each potential false application should also be pointed out. I do not think that the three phases of water is a good analogy for the trinity. This story is a vivid illustration of the awe, which the Church feels towards the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. Despite the fact that each member of the Trinity . Theologians through the centuries have racked their brains in a quest to formulate a doctrinally sound, fully satisfying illustration of the Triune Godhead.What stymies their efforts is the fact that God is transcendent, and some of His qualities are unknowable (Isaiah 55:8-9). There never was such an aversion to ALL analogies in Church History as there is today, where many seek to throw all analogy away (which is impossible), or take a Biblicist approach and only use the analogy of Father, Son, and Spirit. List of triple deities of Babylonian polytheism. Answer (1 of 22): Cynics assert that the idea of the Holy Trinity is a logical impossibility. The Holy Spirit of God. The Good In Romans 1:20 above Paul says that the things created clearly show God's nature. I'm so sorry! Yet the orthodox view is that each person of the Trinity is fully divine. The water and the man analogy each fail due to the denial of three distinct persons. Due to its otherworldliness, no metaphor can illustrate the Trinity perfectly. Live. Trinitarian Analogies. H2O can take the form of ice, water, or water vapor, but all three forms are water. There may be no analogy of the trinity that does not break down at some point. #7 Andy T. , Aug 28, 2007 There is also the example of the 3 physical forms of material, such as water. Plug the cord into the electrical outlet and bingo--the revelation of the Trinity. In all honesty, for a "Christian" to say that the Trinity isn't polytheism, is like a Catholic . How the analogy goes: The trinity is . Water cannot be ice, liquid and vapor all at once. Yet some metaphors are better and some are worse. Kevin Harris: Dr. Craig, from time to time we not only respond to questions that people send us but we respond to various criticisms that we might encounter on the web or that we receive in various ways. For example, the Shamrock analogy ultimately doesn't work because it implies that each Person of the Trinity is one-third of the whole, which is not the case. There are many analogies that float around that attempt to describe certain aspects of the Trinity. Q. If one's "self-awareness" is described as the sum of all one's thoughts and experiences, what can be called as one's all-encompassing "experience of existence", then one engenders an affection for that which is contemplated . that is what the trinity is. Surely in nature there are good analogies to the concept of Triunity, threeness within oneness, and the good news is there are good examples. The Trinity is mysterious. Here are some suggestions of a good way to use analogies for kids to further their comprehension of God as Trinity. As a result, this analogy can easily lead to tritheism in which there are three different gods which might share some like substance. Answer (1 of 2): Nothing actually can be compared to the blessed Trinity in terms of the Godhead. Let the patron saint of the Irish show you what I'm talking about. And if we're being honest, a lot of things are outside of our complete understanding. This analogy compares the Trinity to steam, ice, and water. Please forgive me! One approach is to use analogies. Another popular but false analogy is the following: the Trinity is like how water can be ice, liquid and steam. Perhaps you've heard the analogy that the Trinity is like H 2 O (the molecular symbol for water). 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